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Gay marriage
Gay marriage - 10/18/2007 (https://www.debate.org/debates/Gay-marriage/1/) Instigator: tsmart1770 (Con) Contender: Harlan (Pro) Round 1 tsmart1770: "As there are many sub-topics that can be debated within this broad subject, I am choosing to focus purely on the question: Does the United States government have the power to pass legislation that obligates the catholic church to accept gay marriages within their cathedrals? It is my sound opinion that the government does not hold this power. If we look at the principles that the US was founded on, "freedom of speech, press, religion..." we must realize that this directly contradicts our founding ideals. By passing a legislation that forces religions to accept a principle - no matter what that principle may be - we limit the rights of our people to freedom of religion. We cannot allow the government to usurp the principles of the bible and to contradict the very document that gives it power; the Constitution." Harlan: "Your not forcing anyone to practice something against thier religion when a gay couple get married. You can get married in a place that's not a cathedral. Do you really think that is the motive behind prohibiting gay marriage? No, its because of the christian fundamentalists up top. Because there all loving god, is against Homosexuals existing (even though he created them), they are not allowed to have legal bondage. Now to put this from your perspective, consider this: What if there was a religion that prohibited heterosexuals from being together. Would you make the decision not to be married because it might make them uneasy. Your mind is not treating homosexuals as equals. You may or may not be familiar with the UDHR (universal decleration of himan rights). It clearly states that all people should be given the RIGHT TO MARRIAGE. As far as I see it, this should also be seen as protected by the ninth amendment of the bill of rights (It states that people have rights not listed in the constitution. What is the real reason that you are against gay marriage?" Round 2 tsmart1770: "Harlan, You must realize that I am not challenging the rights that homosexuals have to get married, but am purely asking whether or not the "the United States government has the power to pass legislation that obligates the catholic church to accept gay marriages within their cathedrals?" Now, in between the assertions about the inconsistency of the Christian religion, and the alleged attack upon my character, you did mention the ninth amendment to the constitution. As this is a potentially relevant argument my original question, I will depict a new perspective of your interpretation. You stipulated that the ninth amendment "states that people have rights not listed within the constitution." Though, you focused purely on the perspective of homosexual's rights to marriage. Looking further, you must realize that this amendment also influences the rights of the church – allotting them the right to deny marriage to those they deem sinners. (Harlan please remember that we are en rapport in regards to the irony of the Christian religion. Also remember that Christianity is not the topic of our debate.) This new perspective validates the churches decisions to deny homosexuals the right to be married. The bill of rights not only authenticates the actions of the church, as you have pointed out to me, but also ensures the separation of church and state (first and ninth amendment). So long as it respects its underlying principles, the government, should in no way be allowed the privileges of forcing any religion to accept something they deem incorrect, or sinful." Harlan: Harlan forfeited this round.